| Counter-Strike: Condition Zero As a squad leader in an elite counter-terrorist operative, use new intel and weapon skills to complete an incredible collection of single-player missions. A collection of entirely new objectives challenge your ability to think quickly. |
05-06-2006, 10:02 PM
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#1
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Space Cadet
Join Date: 3 Jun 2006
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abuse
why cant screenshots be submitted for evidence of abuse?
it's rule #1. i assume it's therefore deemed important?
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<@Sorwyn> if I jump into a server and abuse someone for 10min and then finally get a "f off" and sub that to get them banned?
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constant abuse should most definately be banned. 2-3 comments should suffise. if someone abuses me constantly for 3 maps and i choose to abuse them back 3 times which they then capture, then good on him i deserve it.
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<@Sorwyn> lol, I know it sucks a little, but we need the proper evidence so when they appeal we can look and go "no chance"
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why does this have to be a demo? screenshots contain are all the evidence needed. if required a screenshot of the users steamid could be included. apply the ban and if it's consequently appealed, match it against the server's log to ensure the picture wasnt doctored.
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<@Sorwyn> instead you'd prefer we went on banning sprees?
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yes i would prefer that. are you actually concerned about the state of the server or is traffic more important?
-m.d.
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05-06-2006, 10:59 PM
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#2
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Community Member
Join Date: 30 May 2006
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Re: abuse
i guess they're argument rien is that with demos u can't really fake it... where as with screenies u can photoshop and/or not correspond the steamid/status screenie...
anyways, like i said in zulu's hack thread... the abuse is like always 100% everytime we play... we tell them not to cry and instead demo/submit... but they're argument is that they cbf'd and that there's no point because steam ids' are hell easy to come by.... sometimes they even say that admins are on our side etc etc... i always reply with a demo/submit then cry statement but they dont seem to get the idea... and it's bloody constant round after round after round!!
perhaps i should just hud_saytext 0 *sigh*
-s.r.
Last edited by CVonV; 05-06-2006 at 11:07 PM.
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05-06-2006, 11:13 PM
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#3
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Space Cadet
Join Date: 3 Jun 2006
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Re: abuse
ok well you dont even need a screenshot of their steamid. i was just suggesting it could be included if the admins felt it was required.. which it isnt.
example:
*edited out due to swearing*
screenshot taken 05062006 sometime between 1630-1900CST.. which isnt really needed either.
ctrl+f server log "suck off admin".. retrieve steamid.. ban.
Last edited by Pits; 06-06-2006 at 01:37 AM.
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05-06-2006, 11:20 PM
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#4
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Community Member
Join Date: 30 May 2006
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Re: abuse
yeah but that just creates more work for the reviewers.. and besides i dont think they have the manpower to do that... unlike another network i know of... *koff* node *koff*... those guys troll the damn logs and proactively ban ppl for abuse 
Last edited by CVonV; 05-06-2006 at 11:24 PM.
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06-06-2006, 12:00 AM
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#5
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Join Date: 21 Sep 2004
Location: Never Never Land
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Re: abuse
i'm more than happy to review what ever you submit, and i'm sure the other ops are also...
essentially, if you've taken the time to record it, then we're obligated to review it.
if you've got screenshot or a condump, then submit them with the time they were taken. obviously we'd prefer demos, but we cant always specify the form that the abuse takes. if you've got the records, send them in!
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06-06-2006, 12:43 AM
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#6
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Space Cadet
Join Date: 14 Apr 2005
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Re: abuse
samid, if you are so happy to review it can you please post a reply on your thoughs of the screenshot on http://forums.gamespace.net.au/showthread.php?t=10509 ?
Just.. tell me what you think and if that deserves a ban (I submitted that to ACE aswell)
Also rien in that screenshot that you posted can you tell me what exactly those things that i circled are?
*edited out due to swearing*
Last edited by Pits; 06-06-2006 at 01:38 AM.
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06-06-2006, 12:54 AM
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#7
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Community Member
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Re: abuse
some gl_ console command...
gl_max_size i think
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06-06-2006, 07:53 AM
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#8
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Space Cadet
Join Date: 3 Jun 2006
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Re: abuse
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Originally Posted by CVonV
yeah but that just creates more work for the reviewers..
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compared to what.. the work needed to review the "whole round" 25 minute demos i will submit? also zulu you'll have to pm me the link to that screenshot.
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06-06-2006, 08:32 AM
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#9
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Game & League Organiser
Join Date: 26 Nov 2004
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[ TM: ] Team Mediocre
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Re: abuse
rien obviously whatever I say isn't going to convince you. As a said at the time, agree to disagree, you have your POV and we have our process.
But for the rest of you here's my explaination.
I don't like screenshots for the simple fact that it's one tiny incident. It doesn't show in any way what the circurmstances where at the time. This "abuser" could do the same to you, just be his usual self and abuse constantly and when one of you says "shut up and **** off" or such like and submits I screenshot of you saying that as evidence of abuse should I be banning you? He could get 2 or 3 of these over the course of a week. Should you be banned?
The arguement that it takes too long to take a demo is compelete BS. All GS Ops have to follow the same process. If we encounter a hacker or abuser it's, start demo and sub it to ACE. We may place a temp ban if we believe it obvious or bad enough whilst the demo is being reviewed in ACE, but seriously I've done that TONS of times and I know other ops have done it many more times than I have.
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06-06-2006, 01:59 PM
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#10
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Community Member
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Re: abuse
yeah i can understand that sorwyn... expect a 100min demo from me :P
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06-06-2006, 04:56 PM
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#11
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Space Cadet
Join Date: 3 Jun 2006
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Re: abuse
ok well i never said demoing took too long. i did however say i was capped and didnt want to submit a large demo. as this is the only evidence you will accept, if i choose to assist the network i suppose i'm forced to follow your current procedure.
25min .dem files ftw.
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06-06-2006, 05:26 PM
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#12
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Space Marshal
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Re: abuse
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Originally Posted by rien
ok well i never said demoing took too long. i did however say i was capped and didnt want to submit a large demo. as this is the only evidence you will accept, if i choose to assist the network i suppose i'm forced to follow your current procedure.
25min .dem files ftw.
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If you're capped, you'll still get normal speeds to Gamespace servers if you're a Netspace customer. If not, then my apologies.
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06-06-2006, 10:13 PM
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#13
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Space Cadet
Join Date: 3 Jun 2006
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Re: abuse
dont be sorry. ( here is where i wish i could say im happy with my current isp )
demom.d.
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07-06-2006, 09:56 PM
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#14
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Community Member
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Re: abuse
condump should be fine for text abuse. The biggest you're likely to have is a 100kb text file which wont chew your cap 
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08-06-2006, 07:59 AM
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#15
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Space Cadet
Join Date: 3 Jun 2006
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Re: abuse
thanks ghostdog. yes condumps are fine. that's all i've wanted to hear the whole time.
demom.d.
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08-06-2006, 01:04 PM
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#16
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Game & League Organiser
Join Date: 26 Nov 2004
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Re: abuse
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condump should be fine for text abuse. The biggest you're likely to have is a 100kb text file which wont chew your cap
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thanks ghostdog. yes condumps are fine. that's all i've wanted to hear the whole time.
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No no they're not. To my knowledge condumps are just text documents dumped from the console. I couldn't think of ANYTHING easier to modify to implicate someone. So no they're not acceptable.
DEMO! 
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08-06-2006, 04:39 PM
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#17
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Community Member
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Re: abuse
they were always fine for me... I even asked grraf about it and he said they were fine. Screenshots are easy to modify aswell. So are demo's
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08-06-2006, 05:10 PM
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#18
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Space Cadet
Join Date: 3 Jun 2006
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Re: abuse
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Originally Posted by Sorwyn
No no they're not. To my knowledge condumps are just text documents dumped from the console. I couldn't think of ANYTHING easier to modify to implicate someone. So no they're not acceptable.
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well isn't this thread a headache.
condumps are simply text files and are obviously much easier to modify than screenshots / demos. i expect admins to be suspicious of everyone and it's a good attitude to have in order to prevent unwarranted bans. however, on submission of a condump, if the evidence submitted warrants a ban, shouldn't a further investigation be reasonable? this could include the submission of similar screenshots and / or more effectively a server log check? ( if you're wondering why it always comes back to this, it's because it's the only true way to know if an event occured or not ).
how many condump submissions do you honestly think will be submitted? currently as far as i'm aware the only players submitting are samid, cvonv and myself. if people are willing to spend their time attempting to improve the server, why not cut them some slack and allow more flexible ways to submit evidence.
demom.d.
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08-06-2006, 06:59 PM
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#19
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Game & League Organiser
Join Date: 26 Nov 2004
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Re: abuse
rien, just to let you know I'm not really starting a fight here or anything
Basically, I'm trying to help you get the players in question banned. We've had submissions with nothing but screenshots, the majority of them get voted "not enough evidence". Waste of your time and a waste of ours. To search the logs we'd have to have an idea of the date/time/server. Even then it's a massive job as most of us don't have direct access to the logs. Nearly all of us are volunteers which means we don't have direct access to the servers for obvious reasons.
I'd say we do a minimum 10+ demo's a week (often well above that). Nearly all of those are looked at by the volunteers Ops (anyone without a staff avatar), which means we give up our free time to do it. Adding trawling through logs everytime someone submits, 1 screenshot with "shutup n00b" in it, is not something I'll be spending my time on.
A demo of 5 minutes of abuse is easy for you and easy for us.
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08-06-2006, 07:00 PM
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#20
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Space Monkey
Join Date: 13 Jan 2006
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Re: abuse
its seems there is a problem in bannig people these days......if u have a l33tconfig it it very hard to tell the differance from a hack to a config....as in sound binds and scripts that arnt illegal in anyway in pub,so in saying that people i have played with on the gamespace servers are being banned for no reason at all.i also supply these configs to people i know and if people are taken demos there needs to be a panel that reviews them and puts them on display for any person that gets banned to view them...in sayn that i played on a gamespace server not so long ago it was called l33t server the admin had rcon and he was hacking to the hilt if u do a search u will find who had the rcon access to that server are u going to ban him,not with out a demo....i hear?if the process is to be seen as a good 1 at least release the demos to the public so us gamers can make up our own minds as well.i got people banned from gamespace and the rumours that went round as far as zulu and my self fixed the demo i never did or will fix demos at all...i want the servers clean as well.
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08-06-2006, 08:48 PM
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#21
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Space Cadet
Join Date: 14 Apr 2005
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Re: abuse
That person we got banned with sufficient proof is now playing on GS under a new steamID, same Alias lol.
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08-06-2006, 08:53 PM
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#22
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Community Member
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Re: abuse
well i do agree with releasing demos to the public... if not, just to the person who is appealing...
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08-06-2006, 09:00 PM
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#23
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Space Marshal
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Re: abuse
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Originally Posted by zulumonkey
That person we got banned with sufficient proof is now playing on GS under a new steamID, same Alias lol.
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Then grab another demo and send it in. He'll run out of SteamIDs eventually..
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10-06-2006, 10:49 PM
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#24
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Space Cadet
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Re: abuse
Beefy, thats pointless the Admins should just take a less procedure like approach to adminning and ban people for what they have done.
Also meet the idiot of the way
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11-06-2006, 01:32 AM
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#25
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Community Member
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Re: abuse
u can't base a ban on a new steam id based on previous offences from a different steam id... the evidence u submit is for that steam id and that steam id alone.
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11-06-2006, 02:01 PM
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#26
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Space Marshal
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Re: abuse
Yes, simply because there is no way to physically verify who owns the account. They might use the same name and everything, but until such time as they hack on their new steamid we will not ban them..
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12-06-2006, 09:04 PM
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#27
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Space Monkey
Join Date: 10 Jun 2006
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Re: abuse
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Originally Posted by zulumonkey
Beefy, thats pointless the Admins should just take a less procedure like approach to adminning and ban people for what they have done.
Also meet the idiot of the way
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Are you seriously thinking about banning everyone who swears in game or at each other? I mean come on, you can't seriously be offended, its not like i personally insulted your looks or anything like that, i simply said "hack***" cause i got heated when i got shot, oh no.
If you wanna get upset over a little swearing go buy some tissues.
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12-06-2006, 09:40 PM
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#28
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Space Cadet
Join Date: 14 Apr 2005
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Re: abuse
I never said it offended me, it just made you the idiot of the day.
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13-06-2006, 01:39 AM
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#29
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Space Monkey
Join Date: 10 Jun 2006
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Re: abuse
haha i found it funny.. especially cause its you zulu. 
mod edit: swear filter is there for a reason.
Last edited by samid; 13-06-2006 at 02:28 AM.
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13-06-2006, 02:25 AM
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#30
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Community Member
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Re: abuse
bl in advance aenima
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